Not toolate for AR purchase

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Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby toolate » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:14 am

I'm hoping to beat out the Firearm salesman of the decade driving up the price of ARs after the latest shooting news in the States.

I have pussyfooted around long enough so I'm here to get some fatherly advice about this potentially "emotional" purchase. I say emotional, not because I will get a little misty eyed when I get my new toy (I will), but the emotion and drama that fills the web about all things AR-15 among firearm enthusiasts.

What I think I know:

1. Having a top rail to mount all kinds of accessories is a good plan.

2. Sometimes making one is not as good a deal as buying one, some times it is. I do have a gunsmith friend willing to do it.

3. I don't plan to hunt with it, but may shoot critters in the varmint category.

4. I do find target shooting great fun.

5. It is also for self defense.

6. Less than 16 inch barrels complicate purchasing.

7. My State has no magazine restrictions.

8. The budget for the basic rifle is $500-1500 so far, before scary accessories are added if any.

Any and all suggestions are welcomed.

Thank you,

not toolate for more pew pew
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby The Shadow » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:03 am

Well the AR is very customizable, which is why its so popular. Even the standard .556 mm Nato round can be replaced by a few other rounds, with the .300 Blackout being popular with many AR owners. I would definitely go with a flat-top upper, not a fixed carry handle. A nice scope would be quite useful, as well as a lazer or light mount(s) If you are going to shoot varmints long range, I would go with the longer barrels with a 1/7 or 1/8 twist rate, 20 inch or better. A good bolt carrier group is also very important.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Entreri » Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:35 am

1/7 twist
flat top upper
quad rail handguard
collapsible stock
forward grip
4150 steel for the barrel
proof round fired
magnetic particle testing on the bolt
forged front sight base

Those are the big things to look for. I used to be able to tell you which companies to buy from, but that was a few years ago and now everyone and their brother makes AR's. So stick with Mil-Spec and you'll be OK.

OTOH, I CAN tell you a couple of companies to absolutely avoid. Either because their quality is sub-par, or you won't get the barrel twist and steel you want, or they don't MPI their bolts, a combination of all, or something else.

The biggest ones to stay away from are M&A Parts, Model 1 Sales, and Rock River Arms. I'd throw Bushmaster in there too, at least if you're not planning on swapping the barrel out right away (they don't do 1/7 twist).

With AR's, generally you get what you pay for. LaRue is expensive as fuck, and I've heard the guy is a real douchebag to deal with, but everything I've heard about the quality is positive. You pretty much can't go wrong with anything made by Lewis Machine & Tool, Bravo Company (BCM I think? Google "Bravo Company AR-15"), or CMMG. Colt and FN actually make the rifles for the military, so they're obvious choices too.

With your budget, I'd suggest buying a stripped lower, then go spend an hour on AR15.com learning how to assemble it. Buy your lower parts kit (you can get them for like $40 or something at Cabella's, probably cheaper online somewhere) and the stock and pistol grip you want. Then go to either LMT or CMMG's website and have them build the upper. Select the options you want, they put it together and ship it. If you don't know what the various options are, Google is your friend, as is AR15.com.

I personally like free floated quad rails. My next upper won't have the standard front sight base/gas block. And I may consider one of those monolithic rail platforms, where the upper and handguard are all one piece. That's probably a bit out of your price range right now though.

One name to remember: MagPul. MagPul, MagPul, MagPul. They make magazines, pistol grips, handguards, stocks, sights, all kinds of good stuff. Both of my AR's have MagPul stocks; the M4 has the CTR and the A4 has the UBR. The A4 also has a pistol grip from them. And my SCAR is currently sporting one of their angled forward grips. Speaking of forward grips, don't waste your money on cheap shit if you're going to get one. Other than MagPul grip, I have several by Tango Down, and they are solid. Good stuff. They're also somewhere around $70 a pop.

Yankee Hill makes good stuff too.

With $1500, you can build a pretty decent AR if you build the lower yourself and have someone like CMMG build the upper. You could do even better probably if you built the upper, too, but I've never done that so I can't tell you anything about installing the barrel, headspacing, etc.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Merlin » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:55 pm

Once you have a good lower check out

https://www.midwayusa.com

Another great site to check out is

http://www.armslist.com
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby toolate » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:35 pm

Thank you all. A very detailed list to consider.

I've been to AR15.com and found it to give the most consistent advice. Good point on the longer barrel. Yup, no fixed handle.

If my dear friend has the time, we may work on this in gun smithing shop.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Rouleur » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:00 pm

They are silly cheap right now. Palmetto had their Premium Magpul rifle kits on sale black friday for $400! That uses an FN barrel and fits all the specs Entreri kindly provided.

With a budget of $1500, you'll have no trouble building a nice gun. Just remember, the BCG and the barrel are the heart of the gun. If those two components are quality (and assembled correctly), it will be reliable and accurate.

A good BCG is $150 and a good barrel is $200. AR15performance.com will get you an accurate barrel for under $200. I have the 16" SOCOM on my go-to rifle.

You could probably get a good scope into that budget as well. Check out http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-1-6x-scope-with-patented-acss-556-545-308-reticle-advanced-combined-sighting-system-paps1-6x/p/kt-paps1-6x/

Posted by Entreri:
I personally like free floated quad rails. My next upper won't have the standard front sight base/gas block. And I may consider one of those monolithic rail platforms, where the upper and handguard are all one piece. That's probably a bit out of your price range right now though.


I second this, but they aren't expensive. Look at the Aero Precision M4E1. I have this system on a gun and it's nice.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Rouleur » Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:19 pm

Since you want to target shoot and use the rifle for self defense, which is what I do, not just blast thousands of rounds into the dirt, you might consider selecting ammunition that is good at both. I shoot the 77gr Sierra Match King in all my guns. They will shoot minute of angle and also fragment nicely in a badguy. So look for loads with the 77smk, 69smk, 75gr hornady bthp, and 75gr hornady ballistic tip. Prvi makes a 69smk load that is pretty cheap. You can also get the IMI 77grain for a good price.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby The Shadow » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:23 am

toolate wrote:Thank you all. A very detailed list to consider.

I've been to AR15.com and found it to give the most consistent advice. Good point on the longer barrel. Yup, no fixed handle.

If my dear friend has the time, we may work on this in gun smithing shop.


Yeah, if you have the time and the tools handy you can build an AR to your exact specifications or modify it to such. I dont own a DD M-4, nor do I sell, nor work for Daniels Defense firearms, but you might want to look at this site, before you get started, toolate. I know these are out of your price range, but its quite possible to build a great AR using other brand similar parts, at much lower costs.

Never heard anyone complain about an AR or any of their parts from Daniels Defense at all.

The BCG can be dark phosphate coated, which is Mil-Spec, or you can run a Nickel-Boron BCG which do a good job of running hot and dirty, rather then a phosphate BCG rifle, but they are shiny silver colored, not dark finished. Of course, you could also choose to go with a gas-piston system, not direct impingement, in which case the receiver wont foul up
with exhaust gases, but the DI system is Mil-Spec and simpler to maintain then G-P, so I think I would stick with it myself.


https://www.danieldefense.com/build-your-ddm4#

Personally, I myself dont like non-fixed rear stocks on a military style rifle I might use in warfare, not because they dont work well, they do work, but I like having the trap-door butt plate to hold parts/ammo and if I got into a hand to hand fight and had to use the gun as a club, to knock teeth out, or head-butt the @$$holes nose into grit, but to each his own. :D
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Last edited by The Shadow on Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby The Shadow » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:48 am

Rouleur wrote:Since you want to target shoot and use the rifle for self defense, which is what I do, not just blast thousands of rounds into the dirt, you might consider selecting ammunition that is good at both. I shoot the 77gr Sierra Match King in all my guns. They will shoot minute of angle and also fragment nicely in a badguy. So look for loads with the 77smk, 69smk, 75gr hornady bthp, and 75gr hornady ballistic tip. Prvi makes a 69smk load that is pretty cheap. You can also get the IMI 77grain for a good price.


Agreed. The 55 grain .556 NATO round is too weak. 69-77 grain bullets are a much better choice, thus the 1/7 twist rate.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Eddie Willers » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:56 pm

Up here in the frozen North, we have our own version of the 'scary assault weapon', about which the pols are demanding 'something must be done'.

It's the Simonov Carbine - the SKS - a 7.62x39mm semi-auto that has a 10 round mag (although, like all long-guns here, the mag is pinned for 5 rounds max), and produced in huge quantity by the USSR and others. Good, clean, arsenal refurbished examples are typically C$200 (about US$175) and Chinese mil-surp ammo is about US$0.12 per round when bought in bulk.

There's lots of aftermarket goodies for the SKS - tactical stocks, optics, accessory rails etc - and it's a legal rifle for hunting and currently has 'non-restricted' status, meaning that purchase and ownership are not recorded by the Gubbmint.

It's not an AR but it's the closest thing we got up here in Canuckistan and is a sweet gun for blasting seven shades of shit out of anything at the range at the end of a stressful day's work.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby WorldWeary » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:32 pm

Here's mine I built a few months ago:
Image

So far, ~1300rnds through it with no failures.

I went with an 11.5" barrel (1/7 twist, 5.56 chamber, carbine length gas) and built it as a pistol. The lower is a JMT 80% polymer unit that I milled out with a drill press....no prior experience. No serial number.

My first AR15 build was a 14.5" barrel with a pinned and welded Battle Comp to bring it up to 16" overall. It had a mid-length gas system with a light weight barrel and shot very softly. The lower was a forged Mega.

Both have BCM uppers and run H2 buffers. I will only buy BCM at my price point. But I would trust Daniel Defense, LMT, Noveske, Knights Armament, and LWRC as well.
http://standardair.biz/m4chart.png

I would estimate the "pistol" without the other goodies was under $1200. Maybe $1000-1100. I highly suggest ordering a complete upper from BCM. Their prices are reasonable and they have many configurations. If something is out of stock, sign up for email notification...it will usually be back in stock within a month or two.

Their Enhanced Light Weight barrel profile is the tits for saving weight on a semi-auto build. If you go for something with a barrel longer than 16" (a precision build), a medium profile barrel might be better.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby toolate » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:30 pm

WOW!

You guys are great. I'll be digesting all of this for a while.

not toolate to enjoy shooting.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby WorldWeary » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:58 pm

Oh, and arfcom is for plebs. :lol: No offense. Joking, not joking.
It's a good starting point, but I would take some of the things said there with a grain of salt.

I prefer m4carbine.net for more technical information. And WEVO (weaponevolution.com)...especially for Stickman eye-candy. ::drool::

PM me with any questions you don't want to bug your gunsmith friend with. I have some experience assembling uppers (free float rails, barrels, front sight bases/gas blocks, gas tubes, etc.) as well as lowers. I still recommend buying a complete upper from BCM (Bravo Company USA) though. You're unlikely to do better on price AND get a 100% dead nuts reliable rifle. I wouldn't trust random parts to have the correct gas port sizing and to line up correctly. Just let them do it for you and forego the headache. Don't forget to add the BCM bolt carrier group as well...unless you're gonna go with a nickel boron bcg. In which case, I had good luck with the Fail Zero one when it first came out.

Have fun! :D

EDIT: If you do ever need barrel or gas port work done, I recommend ADCO. They turned down a barrel for me and re-phosphated it. They do good work and have a good turnaround time.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby The Shadow » Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:02 am

toolate wrote:WOW!

You guys are great. I'll be digesting all of this for a while.

not toolate to enjoy shooting.


Nope it aint, toolate.

Although I recommend the AR style rifle for home defense and the like, you can get a good .22 Long Rifle like a Marlin 795, a Marlin 60 or a Ruger 10/22 for target practice. You can still buy .22 LR ammo for .08 or .10 cents a round, and with a good scope and some decent practice, you can hit targets at 150-200 yards, unless the windage is pretty bad.

Ruger has more fans but the Marlin 795 is just as good or better then a Ruger 10/22, right out of the box. You load it and it will fire without failure, unlike a Ruger 10/22, which are good, but not that good. Extractors are usually the problem and
the Marlin is better then the Ruger when it comes to that. Lots of aftermarket goodies for the Ruger, but the 795 doesn't
need them.

Just dont buy a Remington 597 LR. Biggest piece of jamming POS I ever bought and I have very literally fired a hundred thousand of rounds of .22 rim-fire cartridges in my lifetime. And I have an old, worn-out Winchester .22 LR semi-auto rifle, that was brand new when I got it, to prove it too. She was a great gun, but she is worn down to the bone now, although when she still fires, she still hits the target. Not bad for a 45 year old rifle that has seen lots of action! :lol:
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby MrPolityczny » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:54 pm

Why AR-15? I do not know much about firearms but on your place I will buy fucking M1 Garrand.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Rouleur » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:44 am

Because the AR is just like a bolt gun, except it loads itself. It's just as easy to use, mount optics, free float, it's just as accurate, and there are hundreds of companies making every accessory imaginable and guns in every popular cartridge. The action is the most brilliantly designed auto loader ever devised. It's also easy to work on. It really is the best gun, ever.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Primus_Pilus » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:29 am

MrPolityczny wrote:Why AR-15? I do not know much about firearms but on your place I will buy fucking M1 Garrand.



Image

Image
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby MrPolityczny » Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:39 pm

Primus_Pilus wrote:Image


Good point! But if we talk about only one rifle M1-Garrand is better (stronger cartridge). Other possibility is:





Yep I shamelessly promote Polish product :oops:
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby TH49 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:47 pm

Dang you MrP after watching those videos now I want an Archer myself.

After searching though, it looks like they quit importing them into the US.

Will have to keep them in mind in the future if I find them available.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Aardvark » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:27 pm

I am new here but AR-15's are my favorite platform. My first was acquired in May 1982 when just about nobody, including the media, knew what they were. Unfortunately I live in New York where they are now effectively banned. I commiserate with my fellow inmates in the NY forum at ar15.com (same handle as on this board).
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby TH49 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 1:41 am

I worked with a couple of guys from NY. Their opinions about the state government and about the City were basically unprintable.

Remington is missing a bet in not bringing back the pump rifle that took the AR magazines for the poor souls in the more
Marxist jurisdictions.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Aardvark » Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:13 am

Our so called "SAFE Act" @#$*&#'ed us over royally. Plus the State Police are making up rules about what is legal and what is not on the fly. At this point, it is their interpretation that anything that looks at all like it is derived from an AR-15 and fires semi-auto is illegal. Mags over 10 rounds are illegal to possess, period. No grandfathering, which required disposal of all previously held legal magazines that held more than 10 rounds.

We have our Governor Cuomo (aka Cumhole, Princess) to thank along with the Republican's who went along with passing the act. The New York State Rifle and Pistol Association was going to appeal the Second Circuit ruling upholding the SAFE Act, but with the death of Scalia they decided it was prudent not to appeal. It could have wound up being the case used to effectively repeal the Second Amendment if the liberal wing of SCOTUS got to rule.

Someday I hope to get out of this Marxist state, collect up my "toys" and build out some nice rifles on stripped lowers I have stored away. I'd like to get a can too and NFA friendly is one of the criteria for wherever I move someday. NFA is illegal in New York plus you cannot have a threaded barrel anyhow so they would be useless here unless integrated into the barrel.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby bob » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:51 pm

Aardvark wrote:Our so called "SAFE Act" @#$*&#'ed us over royally.

I remember listening to Cuomo the day that went in - the screaming demagoguery was channelling pure Hitler.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby Primus_Pilus » Wed Apr 06, 2016 2:11 am

Aardvark wrote:Our so called "SAFE Act" @#$*&#'ed us over royally.


True, but in that case get a Garand.

The fact that it shoots 163 black tip federal EXEMPTED from AP law ammo that will turn an engine block (and armor plates) into swiss cheese is icing on the cake. [NY may have additional AP rules, but Texas is pretty clean on that]

And even without that, 30-06 is absolutely and utterly a one shot man stopper with the right bullets.
(150gr TTSX will utterly ruin your chest cavity without even trying)

Image

8 shot clip drills are as fast a mag changes.
Variable gas port ($39) and poof you shoot full power hunting ammo through your Garand.

And they are just beautiful. [and you can rebarrel to other calibers]

Image

And of course ... MiniG variant

Image

Image
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Someone really should do something about this. Women at risk of living life is just unacceptable.
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Re: Not toolate for AR purchase

Postby MrPolityczny » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:07 am

Some interesting facts...

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