Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

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Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby a_real_man » Sun Dec 25, 2016 5:34 pm

I am fucking sick of the rampant pseudoscience in our society. Fuckers masquerading as scientists and researchers, giving us advice based on "scientific" studies. They tell us that they know what is good for us and what is bad for us, before handing us the fat bill and enacting policies. Then the next day it turns out to be HARMFUL to us. I can't fucking tell if I should listen to dirty ass hippies with magnets and feathers in their hair or to what is being said on webMD articles for my health - they're both at the same level of reliability as voodoo thundermagic.

One day eggs are "bad cholesterol", the next day they are "good cholesterol". Now it turns out that vitamins are statistically harmful. That's right, you've been paying and forcing yourself to chug down this disgusting shit, just so your heart can fail sooner.

http://www.medicaldaily.com/sun-goes-down-vitamin-d-why-i-changed-my-mind-about-celebrated-supplement-368750

Everyone loves D, the sunshine vitamin. Doctors, patients and the media have been [enamored] with vitamin D supplements for decades. As well as their clear benefit in curing severe vitamin D deficiencies, endless headlines hail their magical ability to reduce a vast range of conditions from dementia to cancer.

Medical specialists such as myself have been promoting supplements to our patients with osteoporosis and other bone problems for decades. Many food products contain artificially added vitamin D with the aim of preventing fractures and falls and improving muscle strength although the vitamin also has been claimed to boost the immune system and reduce ageing. I used to sometimes take vitamin D myself and recommended it to my family to survive sun-starved winters.

However, a new paper on the risks that vitamin D may pose finally has convinced me that I was wrong. My view on vitamin supplements and the multi-billion dollar industry behind them altered radically after I began researching my book, The Diet Myth, in 2013. The industry and its PR is supported by celebrities who reportedly have high-dose vitamins drip fed into their veins, and around 50 [percent] of Americans and Britons take them regularly. But surprisingly, there is a lack of evidence to support the health benefit claims of virtually all vitamin supplements on the market.

Vitamin D
Vitamin D is often seen as a harmless supplement to take — the more the better. But the evidence suggests a different picture.
Pixabay

One study based on the large SELECT trial suggested that supplements such as vitamin E and selenium actually increased prostate cancer in some men. And last year massive analyses combining 27 studies on half a million people concluded that taking vitamin and mineral supplements regularly failed to prevent cancer or heart disease. Not only are they a waste of money for the majority of us — but if taken in excessive quantities they can actually hasten an early death, increasing your risk of heart disease and cancer.

Virtually no vitamins or supplements have actually been shown to have any benefit in proper [randomized] trials in normal people without severe deficiencies. Rare exceptions have been lutein nutrients for macular degeneration, a common cause of blindness — and vitamin D, the golden boy of vitamins.

Since the 1980s, researchers (including myself) have written thousands of papers, associating a lack of our [favorite] vitamin with over 137 diseases. A 2014 BMJ report, however, found these links mainly to be spurious.

WON’T DO YOU ANY HARM?

Our genetic makeup influences vitamin D levels. We can use this information to tell if naturally low vitamin D levels might actually increase the risk of disease (rather than be a consequence of it). The evidence so far suggests (with the possible exception of multiple sclerosis and some cancers) that low vitamin D levels are either irrelevant or merely a marker of the disease.

Until now we haven’t worried about giving people extra vitamin D because we thought "it might help anyway and of course (as it’s a vitamin) doesn’t do you any harm." With our increasing knowledge, we should now know better. Recent studies in the last five years have suggested that even calcium supplements as well as being ineffective in preventing fracture can increase the risk of heart disease.

While several studies in normal people failed to find any protective effects from vitamin D, others have been more worrying. One 2015 [randomized] study of 409 elderly people in Finland suggested that vitamin D failed to offer any benefits compared to placebo or exercise — and that fracture rates were, in fact, slightly higher.

The usual prescribed dose in most countries is 800 to 1,000 units per day (so 24,000-30,000 units per month). However, two [randomized] trials found that at around 40,000 to 60,000 units per month Vitamin D effectively became a dangerous substance.

One study involving over 2,000 elderly Australians, which was largely ignored at the time, and the one just published found that patients given high doses of vitamin D or those on lower doses that increased vitamin D blood levels within the optimal range (as defined by bone specialists) had a 20-30 [percent] increased rate of fractures and falls compared to those on low doses or who failed to reach "optimal blood levels."

Explaining exactly why vitamin D supplements are often harmful is harder. Some people who don’t take supplements have naturally high blood levels which may be due to them spending large amounts of time outdoors in the sun or eating oily fish regularly — and there is no evidence that this is harmful. Higher than average levels can also be due to genes which on average influence about 50 [percent] of the differences between people. So our obsession with trying to bring everyone up to a standard normal target blood level is seriously flawed, in a similar way to our one-size-fits-all approach to diet.

Until now we have believed that taking vitamin supplements is "natural" and my patients would often take these while refusing conventional "non-natural" drugs. Our body may not view supplements in the same misguided way. Vitamin D mainly comes from UV sunlight converted slowly in our skin to increase blood levels or is slowly metabolized from our food. In contrast, taking a large amount of the chemical by mouth or as an injection could cause a very different and unpredictable metabolic reaction. For example, our gut microbes are responsible for producing around a quarter of our vitamins and a third of our blood metabolites and also respond to changes in vitamin levels picked up by receptors in our gut lining. Any artificial addition of large amounts of chemicals will upset some sensitive immune processes.

The news that even my [favorite] vitamin can be dangerous is a wake-up call. We should be taking our worldwide abuse of these chemicals much more seriously rather than routinely adding them to foods. The billions we waste on these products, assisted by the poorly regulated but rich and powerful vitamin industry should be spent on proper healthcare — and people should be educated to go in the sunshine and eat a diverse range of real food instead. For 99 [percent] of people, this will provide all the healthy vitamins they will ever need.


Burn in hell. "The news that even my [favorite] vitamin can be dangerous is a wake-up call." Maybe you doctors are a little overconfident, don't you think, Dr. Shitlord? Perhaps you shouldn't prescribe these things to people if you don't know for certain? Just a fucking thought.
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby Orangutan » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:04 pm

I try not to pay any attention to all the 'dietary advice' that gets pushed on us. Most of this 'research' is paid for by certain segments of the food industry or, worse, extremist vegans like PETA (they'll try scare tactics like claiming that dairy products give you cancer).

You don't need to take supplements to stay healthy unless you have some unusual condition.

Just eat a variety of foods, keep your sugar intake down, avoid ALL shitty processed foods (that includes ALL soft drinks, without exception they're all terrible for your body), and go for a walk in the sunshine regularly.

This is what I do. I haven't seen a doctor in several years.
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby Notorious GIT » Sun Dec 25, 2016 6:33 pm

I'd say I agree with Orangutan, except, well, the future is cancelled, all hope is gone, I really don't care if I die early, and apart from being comfortable with myself, I definitely have precisely ZERO women I'm interested in impressing with how I look.

Yeah, I'll eat all right to a point as it supports lifting and joint maintenance, but other than that... Meh. Fuck it. Bring on the pizza.
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby Primus_Pilus » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:17 pm

Orangutan wrote:You don't need to take supplements to stay healthy unless you have some unusual condition.


I'm going to politely disagree on this one. Being over 40 I think you do need more of the micronutrients if only because the food we consume is missing so much of what used to be in it.

I take a 17 ingredient stack of vitamins and amino acids, while I'm on it I feel like I did in my late 20's. When I come off it there is definitely a loss of energy and just a feeling of 'older' that is hard to describe.

To get the micronutrients that I take on a daily basis just by eating food I would be consuming 7-8000 calories a day.

So quality of intake counts.

Vitamin D is a vitamin (like A) that is toxic in excess so you have to be careful with it. You also have to couple Vitamin D and Calcium intake with Vitamin K to really get it into your bones where it needs to be. So keep in mind that a lot of ingredients require coupling and trebling to get the most out of them.

Funny side effect but take enough powdered riboflavin [1/8 tsp a day] and your piss turns day glo yellow no matter how much water you drink.
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Someone really should do something about this. Women at risk of living life is just unacceptable.
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby ZionDweller » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:16 am

Orangutan wrote:
You don't need to take supplements to stay healthy unless you have some unusual condition.




That's not necessarily true. For one, I can practically guarantee you are deficient in Iodine and vitamin K2. When you are deficient in iodine, the symptoms are easy to miss or disregard (cold hands, cold feet, dry skin, low body temp, fatigue and more). However, you leave yourself open to all sorts of cancers.

Eating a balanced diet and avoiding processed crap will still leave you deficient. Also, in our polluted environment and pesticide laden foods, we need more minerals to aid in detoxification.

What most people don't realize is that how they feel is nowhere near as good as how they could feel if they had adequate nutrition.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the selenium they mentioned in the report that increased risk of prostate cancer is only the case if they use the wrong type of Selenium. Concerning vitamin E, there is a type associated with causing cancer but there is also a type that is not.

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2 ... er/page-01

One problem with that study was that it used only a single form of selenium.19,22 This selenium compound is just one of several different forms in which selenium is available for nutritional supplementation. The major flaw in this study is that it used synthetic alpha tocopherol, which displaced critical gamma tocopherol from cells, thereby increasing cancer risk.19,69


The sections I made bold refers to types of vitamin E. One could even argue that they didn't want the outcome of the trial to be positive...


Selenium also needs to be correctly balanced with Iodine too.

Vitamin D3 and Calcium can increase the risk of heart problems but that's because many do not understand that it needs to be paired with vitamin K2 that activates calcium and carries it to the right place, away from soft tissues such as arteries. Vitamin K2 decreases risk of cardiac arrest by 50%.

Correct and responsible supplementation can make a huge beneficial difference to your entire life. Let me give you two of many examples.

A 60 year old man was suffering from back ache and was given pain killers by his Doctor. I suggested that he tried supplementing with one table spoon of hydrolized collagen a day. I don't remember how long but his back ache vanished and he was able to resume his usual activities. The back ache returned after he stopped supplementing with the collagen for 2 weeks.

To get the collagen naturally instead of from a supplement would involve boiling up bones and skin of animal for many hours each day (bone broth). However the supplementation is actually easier for the body to absorb because it has a lower molecular weight.

Another example. A middle aged man was suffering from sensitive teeth and nothing was working that his dentist was suggesting. Fermented cod liver oil with high vitamin butter oil fixed it. it was most likely the vitamin K2 (butter oil) that was shifting the calcium into his teeth. Without vitamin K2, our bodies do not know where to put calcium!
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby a_real_man » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:14 am

ZionDweller wrote:
Orangutan wrote:
You don't need to take supplements to stay healthy unless you have some unusual condition.




That's not necessarily true. For one, I can practically guarantee you are deficient in Iodine and vitamin K2. When you are deficient in iodine, the symptoms are easy to miss or disregard (cold hands, cold feet, dry skin, low body temp, fatigue and more). However, you leave yourself open to all sorts of cancers.

Eating a balanced diet and avoiding processed crap will still leave you deficient. Also, in our polluted environment and pesticide laden foods, we need more minerals to aid in detoxification.

What most people don't realize is that how they feel is nowhere near as good as how they could feel if they had adequate nutrition.

Another thing to bear in mind is that the selenium they mentioned in the report that increased risk of prostate cancer is only the case if they use the wrong type of Selenium. Concerning vitamin E, there is a type associated with causing cancer but there is also a type that is not.

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2 ... er/page-01

One problem with that study was that it used only a single form of selenium.19,22 This selenium compound is just one of several different forms in which selenium is available for nutritional supplementation. The major flaw in this study is that it used synthetic alpha tocopherol, which displaced critical gamma tocopherol from cells, thereby increasing cancer risk.19,69


The sections I made bold refers to types of vitamin E. One could even argue that they didn't want the outcome of the trial to be positive...


Selenium also needs to be correctly balanced with Iodine too.

Vitamin D3 and Calcium can increase the risk of heart problems but that's because many do not understand that it needs to be paired with vitamin K2 that activates calcium and carries it to the right place, away from soft tissues such as arteries. Vitamin K2 decreases risk of cardiac arrest by 50%.

Correct and responsible supplementation can make a huge beneficial difference to your entire life. Let me give you two of many examples.

A 60 year old man was suffering from back ache and was given pain killers by his Doctor. I suggested that he tried supplementing with one table spoon of hydrolized collagen a day. I don't remember how long but his back ache vanished and he was able to resume his usual activities. The back ache returned after he stopped supplementing with the collagen for 2 weeks.

To get the collagen naturally instead of from a supplement would involve boiling up bones and skin of animal for many hours each day (bone broth). However the supplementation is actually easier for the body to absorb because it has a lower molecular weight.

Another example. A middle aged man was suffering from sensitive teeth and nothing was working that his dentist was suggesting. Fermented cod liver oil with high vitamin butter oil fixed it. it was most likely the vitamin K2 (butter oil) that was shifting the calcium into his teeth. Without vitamin K2, our bodies do not know where to put calcium!


Do you have a structured diet plan that you follow?
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby The Shadow » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:42 am

Don't leave Vitamin C out. It has so many uses I cant name them all. Funny thing is most mammals can make their own Vitamin C, but humans and a few apes cannot.
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Re: Vitamins are great for you. Yesterday. But not anymore.

Postby ZionDweller » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:07 am

a_real_man wrote:Do you have a structured diet plan that you follow?



No, I just limit the processed foods I eat and since I no longer have a sugar cravings, don't eat any sweets or chocolates anymore.

I usually have about 270 grams of mixed vegetables a day. A few liters or more of mineral water depending on activities and general meals like rice, salmon, omelettes, eggs, potato etc. About 200 or more grams of oats.

Since I do strength training 3x a week, that also influences what I eat / drink. I supplement with minerals I know are hard to get in foods, deficient in soil or not enough due to the toxic environment. Ive never felt better. If I feel like a snack I will eat cold pressed whole food snacks that may contain chia seeds, coconut, dates, oats, fruits etc.

My diet varies but I can tell if I am deficient in some minerals or having too much due to how my body feels. For example, I know when I am not getting enough or too much Iodine, too much vitamin C, too much vitamin E etc.

There is nothing wrong with visiting the Doctor, but when you rely on them to tell you what your body needs and ignore your own intuition, I think you no longer hear what it is telling you.
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