Weighing your worth

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Weighing your worth

Postby deadb0y » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:20 am

Some of you are aware that I recently started full time work after years of freelancing. At this point the place I work at is OK but it lacks solid management. There is an MD and 2 directors... One of the directors (not my manager) and the MD are constantly micromanaging and not letting people do their job, the second director limits access to purchasing options (IT upgrades and such) on an almost daily basis.

In December I've got my 6 month review - I've warned my manager (director #2) that I will be after more money. The last fella that did my job only did the web dev aspects of it and not much else and from what I can find out he was on 34k. I do web dev, IT maintenance, desktop support, network management, printer maintenance, hardware maintenance, blaa blaaa bllllaaaa... and I pretty damn good at all of it!

The UK salary for the different aspects of my job are Web Developer: 25-35k - IT Manager: 40-50k. I'd say, if given a budget and autonomy, I'd be worth 50k+ but I don't think I'll get a budget or autonomy and in that respect, they can limit my salary! I've given myself a lower limit of 35k but at 45 years old and tons of IT experience I don't think that's high enough, it is, however, better than nothing! I'm thinking of going in at 42.5k, gives them a haggle but I won't lose out on much!

My question is this: How much am I worth to a firm that seems (at this point) unwilling to take advantage of my skills?
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby xtc » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:23 am

Have you pitched your higher skillset and how it could really help them?
I've worked for several firms where I've given them fully worked through business plans and very often I get the go ahead. If you set the right tone - i.e. not "You guys are idiots" - then even if they don't like it, they often value the input.

BTW, don't be surprised if you are shot down, and next week the boss comes up with a brilliant idea that looks exactly like what you suggested....
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby Demosthenes » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:48 am

And don't be surprised if they give you more responsibilities, and promise that if you do well then you'll see something in 6 more months.

They're in a solid position right now given that 6 months is not a year and usually, if given, token amounts are offered for 6 month reviews if at all (depends on the company of course).

The other area they can slam you is if they have some sort of job/position structure which positions your minimum and maximum pay so that they can dole out lower raises while telling your hat they have to keep an eye on the 'future'.

They'll present this as looking out for you, but what it really means is they have an excuse not to give you the raises you deserve under the false notion that their pay structure is 'protecting you' when it is really protecting how long they can make use of a high skill set positioned in a lower position pay scale so they can maximize their efficiency by squeezing the most out of employees for the least amount.
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby Dudeist Priest » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:00 am

I strongly hint way in advance that I'm expecting more pay, and if the company doesn't proactively deliver, I go for an external promotion. (Switch jobs, make mo $$$)

If you negotiate a raise, they'll just use it against you to do more work. They'll put you in the "unhappy, will probably leave anyway" category for even talking about money, which isn't true, but just how people think. Switching jobs is a big hassle.
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby deadb0y » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:22 am

xtc wrote:Have you pitched your higher skillset and how it could really help them?
I've worked for several firms where I've given them fully worked through business plans and very often I get the go ahead. If you set the right tone - i.e. not "You guys are idiots" - then even if they don't like it, they often value the input.

BTW, don't be surprised if you are shot down, and next week the boss comes up with a brilliant idea that looks exactly like what you suggested....



Not yet, I have been writing a "long term plan" thingy at home to pull out at the review, you know, big thick wad of paper "I wrote this" but not let them see it in any detail kind of thing. I've also sorted out a long term issue with a system that could have been automated but none of my predecessors could actually get to work. So they know I'm more than capable of making some big improvements.

Being a bit of a smarty pants, the "You guys are fucking idiots, have you not got any idea what you are doing?" is always right on the tip of my tongue!

Demosthenes wrote:And don't be surprised if they give you more responsibilities, and promise that if you do well then you'll see something in 6 more months.

They're in a solid position right now given that 6 months is not a year and usually, if given, token amounts are offered for 6 month reviews if at all (depends on the company of course).

The other area they can slam you is if they have some sort of job/position structure which positions your minimum and maximum pay so that they can dole out lower raises while telling your hat they have to keep an eye on the 'future'.

They'll present this as looking out for you, but what it really means is they have an excuse not to give you the raises you deserve under the false notion that their pay structure is 'protecting you' when it is really protecting how long they can make use of a high skill set positioned in a lower position pay scale so they can maximize their efficiency by squeezing the most out of employees for the least amount.


They can't really put any more responsibilities on me. In fact, I'd actually like a bit more :) This is the first 6 month review so if nothing happens now I'm done here! There is no real structure, warehouse people, sales people, 1.5 IT guys (me and my manager that's about 50% IT guy), it's quite a small firm, I can spit on the guy that owns it from here if he opens his door. I know all about keeping people with higher skill sets on lower pay.. I used to do it!

Dudeist Priest wrote:I strongly hint way in advance that I'm expecting more pay, and if the company doesn't proactively deliver, I go for an external promotion. (Switch jobs, make mo $$$)

If you negotiate a raise, they'll just use it against you to do more work. They'll put you in the "unhappy, will probably leave anyway" category for even talking about money, which isn't true, but just how people think. Switching jobs is a big hassle.


See above, I actually want more responsibilities, more work! I've already dropped the hint too! They can put me in the unhappy, about to leave slot if they like but I already warned them at interview that what I'm on now was not enough for long term!
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby Morgu » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:41 pm

I've warned my manager (director #2) that I will be after more money.

Your bosses are already planning on you leaving. One way or another.

Be prepared for your review to drag up every little disagreement you had with your boss(es), and for them to turn each one into a potential discipline problem. That way they can make your life more and more miserable, if you decide to stay, and slowly force you out the door.

Most places do not understand the value of retaining good IT staff. They think in terms of six months, because that is how long a temp worker can be hired. Hire one IT guy on a six month temp contract, dangle the carrot of possibly moving to full time salary, then hire a different IT guy on another six month temp contract when the first ends. Rinse and repeat. This is pretty common in IT.

The last fella that did my job only did the web dev aspects of it and not much else and from what I can find out he was on 34k. I do web dev, IT maintenance, desktop support, network management, printer maintenance, hardware maintenance, blaa blaaa bllllaaaa... and I pretty damn good at all of it!

Entry level IT makes $25k-$30k/year. Mid-level IT makes $30k-$50k/year. The rule of thumb is to take the base $25k and add $10k/year to it for each area of responsibility you cover.

Your boss(es) are already planning on you leaving. You should be too. With all the experience you have, you should have no problems finding another job making more money. You have the power when dealing with them, if you go into this review knowing what you are worth, and are willing you walk away, you might be let go now. However, in a little while, these guys might just come crawling back to you.

Be calm, and prepare.

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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby Slade » Wed Oct 26, 2016 11:41 pm

deadb0y wrote:The UK salary for the different aspects of my job are Web Developer: 25-35k - IT Manager: 40-50k.


Hmmm ... can you legally migrate to the USA? I ask because I suspect that you can make a lot more here than that. IT managers in non trivial shops usually pull in 6 figures here. And I'm talking flyover country pay. In places like Silicon Valley or Boston you can pull down even more.
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby G001 » Thu Oct 27, 2016 4:09 am

Slade wrote:
deadb0y wrote:The UK salary for the different aspects of my job are Web Developer: 25-35k - IT Manager: 40-50k.


Hmmm ... can you legally migrate to the USA? I ask because I suspect that you can make a lot more here than that. IT managers in non trivial shops usually pull in 6 figures here. And I'm talking flyover country pay. In places like Silicon Valley or Boston you can pull down even more.


£25,000 is US$30,000.

For an IT Manager on £45,000, it roughly equals US$54,000. So it would definitely be worth looking at going to the US, or even Australia/NZ. Here IT Project managers are well over A$100,000.
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby deadb0y » Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:13 am

Slade wrote:
deadb0y wrote:The UK salary for the different aspects of my job are Web Developer: 25-35k - IT Manager: 40-50k.


Hmmm ... can you legally migrate to the USA? I ask because I suspect that you can make a lot more here than that. IT managers in non trivial shops usually pull in 6 figures here. And I'm talking flyover country pay. In places like Silicon Valley or Boston you can pull down even more.



That's something I considered (both USA and Canada, I love the look of Alberta)but alas I have been jailed so even if I were allowed in I wouldn't be allowed guns (maybe in Canada) so fuck that!
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Re: Weighing your worth

Postby Calloway » Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:39 am

Morgu wrote:Most places do not understand the value of retaining good IT staff.


If that ain't the truth! A few months ago they fired the lone IT guy we had at my company. They had been talking to an outside company to handle his responsibilities. And of course, they promised the moon. The realities have been vastly different. And of course, management doesn't see that side of it.

For example, we have highly specialized engineering software that we need to maintain the licenses for, and these software packages are used by both the engineering and service departments. Since the IT firm doesn't understand how the licensing works, they simply washed their hands of it, and dumped the entire mess in my lap. And management was ok with this, since they don't understand it, either. I don't mind taking it on, but I was overloaded before this.

It just seems to me that when this new IT firm promised to take over all the existing IT duties, that is what they should be doing.
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