How to invest 10K?

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How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Sat Nov 26, 2016 2:28 am

I don't make a lot of money but I can save a few thou a year. I've got 10K but it's just sitting there. I know inflation is always degrading the value of money but I don't know what to do with it. But I want to grow my wealth, preferably would have some passive income but I can't afford rental properties or stuff like that.

So what should I do with 10K? Stock market, silver or gold, really would appreciate some ideas. Just want something stable, obviously don't wanna risk 10K on something too iffy since my income is low.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby The Signal » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:59 am

The easiest thing to do for long-term yield is ultra-low-cost index funds (below 0.1% fee). For that my personal fave is Vanguard Total Index. Will you lose money on it some years? Let's hope so; that's how markets are supposed to work. But will you still make nice money on it over the long term? Unless everything collapses, yes.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby Morgu » Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:28 pm

The best investments you can make are in yourself.

For example: if you need glasses, consider corrective surgery. Not only will this save money on glasses, but as the decline continues, medical care will increase in cost.

Other ideas would be: learn survival skills, purchase weapons, earn a professional certification or two in your field, etc.

If you mean more strictly money investments: pay off any debts, buy a little gold (it's good insurance), put some more money into any retirement accounts you have.

If you are in America, you could obtain an FFL (Federal Firearms License) and be paid to allow people to ship their weapons to you. Not quite the same as passive income, but you can earn money this way.

You might consider penny stocks. Could invest in a few of the big weapons manufacturers (Beretta, Glock, etc).

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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby EddieS » Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:58 pm

What are your hobbies/interests/skills?
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby xtc » Sat Nov 26, 2016 10:30 pm

Dilbert's Financial Plan (from Dilbert and the Way of the Weasel):

    Make a will.
    Pay off your credit cards.
    Get term life insurance if you have a family to support.
    Fund your 401k to the maximum.
    Fund your IRA to the maximum.
    Buy a house if you want to live in a house and can afford it.
    Put six months worth of expenses in a money-market account.
    Take whatever money is left over and invest 70% in a stock index fund and 30% in a bond fund through any discount broker and never touch it until retirement.
    If any of this confuses you, or you have something special going on (retirement, college planning, tax issues), hire a fee-based financial planner, not one who charges a percentage of your portfolio.

The vast majority of people can't improve on that.

$10k is such a small amount of money it isn't worth worrying. Interest rates are around 2%, so we're talking a couple of hundred dollars interest per year.
For anything less than a million, some say ten million, the absolute amount of money you get from squeezing it harder is too small to justify the mental energy. Just stick it in a low cost index tracker and be done with it.

Penny stocks or other 'high risk' investments are just a gamble, unless you happen to have detailed first hand knowledge of the situation. If you want to gamble with your money, you'll have more fun doing it in Vegas.

Investing in yourself, if you can think of something useful, is an excellent use of $10k.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby Phathack » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:59 pm

If you really want to get into rental properties you should seek some advice and education from those that are in the business. Owning rental properties is a business and as such are quite different than buying a home to live in.
I would not write off the rental business all together until you have an understanding of the whole game.

:ugeek:
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:16 am

Sounds like there's not much point to anything I can do with my meager cash. I've tried CDs before (before the rates hit the floor) and even then it was pointless. Even a "good" rate won't keep up with inflation. I think we normal guys are pretty much fucked. I'll probably do better just being a saver instead of an investor. Stock market seems ok since you can just stick it in there and ride it for decades. I want to keep a cash cushion so maybe my next 10K can go into stocks or bonds or whatever.

I like the idea of investing in myself, seems like a good philosophy. The problem is figuring out what to spend time on, what to work on. I do a few things but nothing I can see will improve my financial prospects significantly.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby Morgu » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:03 pm

TheWanderer wrote:I like the idea of investing in myself, seems like a good philosophy. The problem is figuring out what to spend time on, what to work on. I do a few things but nothing I can see will improve my financial prospects significantly.

We all have finite time on this earth. Investing in yourself is something you can spend as much, or as little, as you wish. Money is our time on this earth, having taken a physical form. Nothing more.

A person is made of three parts (according to the Greeks): Body, Mind, Spirit. Investing in yourself should fall under one of
those three. For example: if you wish to improve your body, invest in yourself by learning a martial art. Not only will you
be in better shape, but you will be a better fighter than most. Self preservation is a vital part of humanity after all.

If you wish to improve your mind, read some philosophy. Plato, Aristotle have written works of a timeless nature. Read some of the classics, The Art of War is always worth the read. Meditation is a skill that works all of the three (body, mind, spirit), and is low cost to learn and practice.

If you wish to improve on your spirit, read some books on religious philosophy. Can be from either your own, or another
religion. Even better: read Buddhist philosophy, then visit a Buddhist shrine, discuss Buddhism with Buddhists, etc. You might even make new friends, which is always good.

Money is used to improve yourself. You don't improve your money. This is what is meant by "invest in yourself".

:)

--Morgu
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby No4Dad » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:48 pm

Take all of it and invest in Beef Bullion. When the economy collapses beef bullion will be all that's accepted for trade.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:59 am

Morgu wrote:We all have finite time on this earth. Investing in yourself is something you can spend as much, or as little, as you wish. Money is our time on this earth, having taken a physical form. Nothing more.

A person is made of three parts (according to the Greeks): Body, Mind, Spirit. Investing in yourself should fall under one of
those three. For example: if you wish to improve your body, invest in yourself by learning a martial art. Not only will you
be in better shape, but you will be a better fighter than most. Self preservation is a vital part of humanity after all.

If you wish to improve your mind, read some philosophy. Plato, Aristotle have written works of a timeless nature. Read some of the classics, The Art of War is always worth the read. Meditation is a skill that works all of the three (body, mind, spirit), and is low cost to learn and practice.

If you wish to improve on your spirit, read some books on religious philosophy. Can be from either your own, or another
religion. Even better: read Buddhist philosophy, then visit a Buddhist shrine, discuss Buddhism with Buddhists, etc. You might even make new friends, which is always good.

Money is used to improve yourself. You don't improve your money. This is what is meant by "invest in yourself".

:)

--Morgu


I already do some of this stuff. This year I've read some Plato (The Republic) and am currently reading some Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil and The Birth of Tragedy) along with some classic novels. Soon I'm going to be reading the Dao De Qing. I'll read it in English first and then try to read bits in Chinese since I dabble in the language. I'm always reading and learning, which are lifelong objects for me.

I study religions, but the more I learn about them the more I see that they are 90% bullshit, originating from the flawed mind of man. Religion is a very easy and natural thing to understand. Most of what has been written about religion is man's own stewed up mumbo jumbo. Not very valuable, though often creative in a twisted way. Given that there are still many people who interpret religious texts literally, most mainstream versions of religion are not valuable, except perhaps as social time if one cares.

Learning a martial art would certainly be useful. Not sure how I could start at the moment given my situation yet it would be a noble pursuit. First I'd need to look into the different forms and find out what their purposes are.

Money is the biggest limitation I have. It is funny that an average man such as I am is freer now than ever in history to "improve" himself, his knowledge, and his abilities...but is much more limited in making money. And what's more, his learning won't often increase his income. (Although to be fair it can if his newly gained skills are in line with the market's ever shifting wants.) Inflation has killed money's value, so we're not able to live a full lifestyle like our forefathers. Learning to be independent is noble and desirable, but it won't get me the freedoms I'm seeking.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby WeeZul » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:35 pm

Bumping this one with a thumbs-up. Study, even if it doesn't bring you profit now, is never a waste of one's time.

I consider a similar course frequently these days. I have enough saved to make a down payment on a small house...if I were someplace other than California. It's not doing anything for me though.

I have a Roth IRA, a (piddly, non-matched) 401K through work, and a student loan. I'm sure there's a thing or two I could do with my money...just not sure what.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:02 am

WeeZul wrote:Bumping this one with a thumbs-up. Study, even if it doesn't bring you profit now, is never a waste of one's time.

I consider a similar course frequently these days. I have enough saved to make a down payment on a small house...if I were someplace other than California. It's not doing anything for me though.

I have a Roth IRA, a (piddly, non-matched) 401K through work, and a student loan. I'm sure there's a thing or two I could do with my money...just not sure what.


That's the thing, making money and figuring out what to do with it is a lot harder these days. Living under a feminist regime, it always strives to make everything as tough as possible. If you get a better job, daddygov takes more money. If you invest, daddygov takes its cut. If you put it in the bank inflation renders the gains worthless. If you start a business daddygov penalizes you. If you save inflation kills your money's value. Stock market is nuts and has been proven to be nothing but manipulation, anything but a free market out there.

That's the best answer I can see too. Invest in yourself. The payoff may never happen financially. Yet a wealth in the soul will always have some real world benefits. Whether that's being less reliant on other people, or learning how to do more for yourself. There's always good that comes out of it and it's always yours. Money can come and go. Wisdom is for a lifetime once attained.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby a_real_man » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:34 pm

TheWanderer wrote:
Morgu wrote:We all have finite time on this earth. Investing in yourself is something you can spend as much, or as little, as you wish. Money is our time on this earth, having taken a physical form. Nothing more.

A person is made of three parts (according to the Greeks): Body, Mind, Spirit. Investing in yourself should fall under one of
those three. For example: if you wish to improve your body, invest in yourself by learning a martial art. Not only will you
be in better shape, but you will be a better fighter than most. Self preservation is a vital part of humanity after all.

If you wish to improve your mind, read some philosophy. Plato, Aristotle have written works of a timeless nature. Read some of the classics, The Art of War is always worth the read. Meditation is a skill that works all of the three (body, mind, spirit), and is low cost to learn and practice.

If you wish to improve on your spirit, read some books on religious philosophy. Can be from either your own, or another
religion. Even better: read Buddhist philosophy, then visit a Buddhist shrine, discuss Buddhism with Buddhists, etc. You might even make new friends, which is always good.

Money is used to improve yourself. You don't improve your money. This is what is meant by "invest in yourself".

:)

--Morgu


I already do some of this stuff. This year I've read some Plato (The Republic) and am currently reading some Nietzsche (Beyond Good and Evil and The Birth of Tragedy) along with some classic novels. Soon I'm going to be reading the Dao De Qing. I'll read it in English first and then try to read bits in Chinese since I dabble in the language. I'm always reading and learning, which are lifelong objects for me.

I study religions, but the more I learn about them the more I see that they are 90% bullshit, originating from the flawed mind of man. Religion is a very easy and natural thing to understand. Most of what has been written about religion is man's own stewed up mumbo jumbo. Not very valuable, though often creative in a twisted way. Given that there are still many people who interpret religious texts literally, most mainstream versions of religion are not valuable, except perhaps as social time if one cares.

Learning a martial art would certainly be useful. Not sure how I could start at the moment given my situation yet it would be a noble pursuit. First I'd need to look into the different forms and find out what their purposes are.

Money is the biggest limitation I have. It is funny that an average man such as I am is freer now than ever in history to "improve" himself, his knowledge, and his abilities...but is much more limited in making money. And what's more, his learning won't often increase his income. (Although to be fair it can if his newly gained skills are in line with the market's ever shifting wants.) Inflation has killed money's value, so we're not able to live a full lifestyle like our forefathers. Learning to be independent is noble and desirable, but it won't get me the freedoms I'm seeking.


Read Epictetus.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby mongolking » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:25 am

TheWanderer wrote:Sounds like there's not much point to anything I can do with my meager cash. I've tried CDs before (before the rates hit the floor) and even then it was pointless. Even a "good" rate won't keep up with inflation. I think we normal guys are pretty much fucked. I'll probably do better just being a saver instead of an investor. Stock market seems ok since you can just stick it in there and ride it for decades. I want to keep a cash cushion so maybe my next 10K can go into stocks or bonds or whatever.

I like the idea of investing in myself, seems like a good philosophy. The problem is figuring out what to spend time on, what to work on. I do a few things but nothing I can see will improve my financial prospects significantly.


The best investment I've made to date was buying stock in the local airport. Bought in about 10 years ago, and with both capital gains and tax-paid dividends, it's up about 325% over that 10 year period.

I invest any spare cash I have in stocks in companies whose products I actually use (classic Warren Buffet strategy). Not hi-tech, not property developers, not software. I like infra-structure and utilities - companies that have a good dividend history, and won't suddenly get wiped out by new technology (like Kodak did). Like Warren Buffet says, your best word is "No". You don't have to make lots of good decisions when investing - half a dozen will do over a lifetime. Just keep saying "No' until you meet an investment that pushes all the right buttons. You have your whole life to wait - just be patient, watch, observe and ask good questions. Try and get some idea of what the investment is likely to pay in dividends over the next 3 or 4 years.

Investing is all about buying income for your future years. No matter what anyone says about it, the worst way you can use your money is to spend it on something that serves you no useful purpose. When you look at the average joe's garage, and see all the junk in there, you couldn't have done worse buying real estate in the desert, or investing big in video rental stores.

Head over to YouTube and look up Warren Buffet. He's the world's most successful investor, and he's good at explaining his investing outlook in simple language. Many of his videos are only 3 or 4 minutes.

Just never forget that you don't have to invest right now. Invest when you're confident in something to invest in.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby Self sufficient » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:15 am

I'm with mongolking on this one.
Sure 10K is a small amount to invest but it's a start.Many people never save or even have this amount of surplus on hand.It's the perfect time to learn with this money and one should never forget what's called the snowball effect.

Either put it in a good index fund which for most people would be the best solution or invest it yourself in the market after educating yourself."The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham is good reading.

I wish I started a lot younger than when I did.This was due to fear of losing my money and held my money in CD's for far too long.Diversification is a must as there will be losses but you have to make sure that there are more gains than losses.Sometimes it's like 3 steps forward and 2 steps backwards but that's how it works.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby hasmat » Sat Mar 25, 2017 9:49 am

Anything not in a physical form, something you can actually hold, can be taken away. Either by outright confiscation or by inflation.


Skills, precious metals, old tools, antibiotics with a long shelf life, heirloom seeds and a place to grow them are the things that you might not need, but the things that will help you survive if you do.

Lead, and an effective delivery system, will help you keep them.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby SardonicYuda » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:10 am

Tagging this as I find myself thinking about this often enough. Should reread the posts about investing in myself first.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:16 am

a_real_man wrote:Read Epictetus.


"What, then, is to be done? To make the best of what is in our power, and take the rest as it occurs."

Any man who can accept and internalize this is enlightened.

I am not such a man, yet I recognize what this really means and now it is the "secret" to enlightenment (a well-made word - to relieve one's burdens, to lighten one's load) but I have not yet achieved understanding by living life this way.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:43 am

mongolking wrote:The best investment I've made to date was buying stock in the local airport. Bought in about 10 years ago, and with both capital gains and tax-paid dividends, it's up about 325% over that 10 year period.

I invest any spare cash I have in stocks in companies whose products I actually use (classic Warren Buffet strategy). Not hi-tech, not property developers, not software. I like infra-structure and utilities - companies that have a good dividend history, and won't suddenly get wiped out by new technology (like Kodak did). Like Warren Buffet says, your best word is "No". You don't have to make lots of good decisions when investing - half a dozen will do over a lifetime. Just keep saying "No' until you meet an investment that pushes all the right buttons. You have your whole life to wait - just be patient, watch, observe and ask good questions. Try and get some idea of what the investment is likely to pay in dividends over the next 3 or 4 years.

Investing is all about buying income for your future years. No matter what anyone says about it, the worst way you can use your money is to spend it on something that serves you no useful purpose. When you look at the average joe's garage, and see all the junk in there, you couldn't have done worse buying real estate in the desert, or investing big in video rental stores.

Head over to YouTube and look up Warren Buffet. He's the world's most successful investor, and he's good at explaining his investing outlook in simple language. Many of his videos are only 3 or 4 minutes.

Just never forget that you don't have to invest right now. Invest when you're confident in something to invest in.


Sounds solid, with a lot of common sense and logic. A place to start figuring things out, what I can do. Seems easy enough, look for what's useful and has staying power. I know I haven't written much here in my response but this was a good post so it's worth quoting.

I haven't read much from Buffet yet but I will look into his ideas. I do remember one thing though, a quote I think, that his favorite holding time for stocks would be "forever." I think that encapsulates the purpose and mindset I need to have.

Any particular infrastructure or utilities you prefer buying?
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby Morgu » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:47 am

TheWanderer wrote:Any particular infrastructure or utilities you prefer buying?

Weapons. Invest in the weapons and ammunition manufacturers.

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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:59 am

Self sufficient wrote:I'm with mongolking on this one.
Sure 10K is a small amount to invest but it's a start.Many people never save or even have this amount of surplus on hand.It's the perfect time to learn with this money and one should never forget what's called the snowball effect.

Either put it in a good index fund which for most people would be the best solution or invest it yourself in the market after educating yourself."The Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham is good reading.

I wish I started a lot younger than when I did.This was due to fear of losing my money and held my money in CD's for far too long.Diversification is a must as there will be losses but you have to make sure that there are more gains than losses.Sometimes it's like 3 steps forward and 2 steps backwards but that's how it works.


Hey, "X and Y," not "X or Y," right? ;) If I could get up enough starting cash for both. Or at least start with the index fund since it doesn't require as much investing smarts then work on education and getting into the market. OK, something else for me to look at, and thanks for the book tip.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby mongolking » Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:48 pm

TheWanderer wrote:
mongolking wrote:The best investment I've made to date was buying stock in the local airport. Bought in about 10 years ago, and with both capital gains and tax-paid dividends, it's up about 325% over that 10 year period.

I invest any spare cash I have in stocks in companies whose products I actually use (classic Warren Buffet strategy). Not hi-tech, not property developers, not software. I like infra-structure and utilities - companies that have a good dividend history, and won't suddenly get wiped out by new technology (like Kodak did). Like Warren Buffet says, your best word is "No". You don't have to make lots of good decisions when investing - half a dozen will do over a lifetime. Just keep saying "No' until you meet an investment that pushes all the right buttons. You have your whole life to wait - just be patient, watch, observe and ask good questions. Try and get some idea of what the investment is likely to pay in dividends over the next 3 or 4 years.

Investing is all about buying income for your future years. No matter what anyone says about it, the worst way you can use your money is to spend it on something that serves you no useful purpose. When you look at the average joe's garage, and see all the junk in there, you couldn't have done worse buying real estate in the desert, or investing big in video rental stores.

Head over to YouTube and look up Warren Buffet. He's the world's most successful investor, and he's good at explaining his investing outlook in simple language. Many of his videos are only 3 or 4 minutes.

Just never forget that you don't have to invest right now. Invest when you're confident in something to invest in.


Sounds solid, with a lot of common sense and logic. A place to start figuring things out, what I can do. Seems easy enough, look for what's useful and has staying power. I know I haven't written much here in my response but this was a good post so it's worth quoting.

I haven't read much from Buffet yet but I will look into his ideas. I do remember one thing though, a quote I think, that his favorite holding time for stocks would be "forever." I think that encapsulates the purpose and mindset I need to have.

Any particular infrastructure or utilities you prefer buying?


I have shares in a couple of telecomms retailers (ie a national network that sells phones and connection plans), an international airport, 3 sea ports, 4 electricity generators, a small bank, two national freight companies, a national network of truck and car sales, and several more interests that are not really infra-structure. I've had bad experiences with construction companies, so I'm avoiding them for now (highly volatile performance from year to year).

I particularly like airports and sea-ports, if they are in growing areas and close to rapidly expanding cities. They're as good a bet as real-estate in that appreciating land is their major asset, the cost of entry is so high they don't get a lot of local competition, they capture any growth of their location, and they're in a prime position to add all sorts of incidental business due to the numbers passing through them (especially international airports - think of all the retailers, hotels, parking buildings, business parks, freight forwarders etc). Unfortunately, all these pluses make them highly attractive to a lot of investors, so the dividend yield is usually quite low. Even so, due to the year-on-year dividend increase of the shares I have in one airport, it's been my best investment in spite of its low dividend yield.

The thing is though, no matter how good an investment you have, you have to spread yourself across several. Even the best businesses take ill and die. It's like raising animals and growing crops - you make money off the total harvest, not any individual animal or field.

EDIT: The line you quoted from Warren Buffet about holding a stock forever is, imho, his most important. Why would anyone want to be thinking about getting rid of an investment, without acknowledging that there's something unsound about it? His emphasis on using the word 'no' a lot is a logical follow-on. Don't invest unless you're certain. That necessarily means staying for the long-haul.

I invest for the income that investment generates. I want that investment to grow, and pay greater dividends over time. I'm not the least bit interested in selling out for a margin, then wondering what to invest in next. That way enriches a whole lot of middle-men - brokers, traders and tax collectors - and it also saddles me with the need to make a lot more good decisions. I'd rather rely on as few good decisions as I can get away with, and it's quite likely that I won't know what was really a good investment until years after I bought it and collected all its payout. And by then, staying with it some more will seem obvious.
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby Morgu » Mon Apr 17, 2017 4:00 pm

Opening two checking accounts in two separate banks, preferably banks that are national. Have a third checking account, your main one, with your local bank. This prevents you from losing all of your money as so many did in Katrina. When many local banks were closed.

If deciding to try over seas investing, be aware that most international banks now refuse to deal with American citizens, due to America's draconian banking and tax laws.

Might even consider a second citizenship. Especially useful if you travel, and are caught in a situation where people with rifles are demanding everyone with a USA passport.

--Morgu
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Re: How to invest 10K?

Postby TheWanderer » Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:24 am

Morgu wrote:Might even consider a second citizenship. Especially useful if you travel, and are caught in a situation where people with rifles are demanding everyone with a USA passport.


This is a great thing to have, but in reality it's not feasible for most of us.

First you have to find a country that allows dual citizenship, then find out how to obtain it. That usually comes down to:

1. Having relatives/generational ties to that country. A lot of countries will allow someone whose grandparents are from that country to apply for dual citizenship. If you're just one more generation beyond that removed...too bad. This is most apt in European countries.

2. Having enough cash to invest (economic citizenship) in a country's bank. Low numbers for this I've seen are 250 grand...great option if you have that kind of dough. But if you don't? Again, too bad. This is most apt in the Caribbean.

I guess a third option would be some kind of military service for a foreign government, but this would likely mean relinquishing your old citizenship for a new one, so it wouldn't really be dual citizenship.
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