Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

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Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby ubermensch » Mon May 02, 2016 8:47 pm

As a percentage of my investments?
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Entreri » Mon May 02, 2016 8:57 pm

How much of your pay are you comfortable living without?

How much are you willing to risk investing in metals that you might not be able to spend, and .gov might decide to seize next time there's an 'emergency'? US.fed.gov did exactly that during the Depression (fuck you, FDR), I'd bet other .govs have too.

10% of your net pay doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but I don't invest in silver, gold, platinum, or palladium, so I'm basically just guessing here.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Cherubino » Mon May 02, 2016 9:03 pm

Well, if you ask that way: IMHO none.

Gold ans silver are not investments. You have a stove full of it at several secret places so that when SHTF happens you have

a) something to barter if it comes to the worst

b) a head start when the re-building begins.

Like, over here, all the rich dudes who collaborated with the Nazi regime where again super rich after the Marshall plan was executed although the allies bombed on everything. Funny, funny, funny.

As an investment, where you expect a good ROI, I believe the gold bubble is past the point where you want to enter.

IMHO the gold stove should contain enough that you can buy something substantial from it. A farm, a truck or half a farm.

(All IMHO, and I don't consider myself expert on this.)
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby mongolking » Mon May 02, 2016 9:13 pm

As a real asset, you're better off with land.

As an asset that actually grows and provides a cash-flow, you're better off with shares.

For dealing with the apocalypse, you're better off with a revolver and one round.

The people who do best out of gold and silver are the few and far between dealers in bullion who take 5-10% every time you want to swap bullion into cash and back.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Morgu » Mon May 02, 2016 9:23 pm

Entreri wrote:How much of your pay are you comfortable living without?

How much are you willing to risk investing in metals that you might not be able to spend, and .gov might decide to seize next time there's an 'emergency'? US.fed.gov did exactly that during the Depression (fuck you, FDR), I'd bet other .govs have too.

10% of your net pay doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but I don't invest in silver, gold, platinum, or palladium, so I'm basically just guessing here.

You investing in the four B's then (Bullets, Baked Beans, gold Bullion and Bullets)?

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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby fester » Mon May 02, 2016 9:36 pm

I imagine it would be more valuable than paper currency in some situations.

Anyone talking you out of metal ownership may have an agenda.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Entreri » Mon May 02, 2016 9:44 pm

Morgu wrote:
Entreri wrote:How much of your pay are you comfortable living without?

How much are you willing to risk investing in metals that you might not be able to spend, and .gov might decide to seize next time there's an 'emergency'? US.fed.gov did exactly that during the Depression (fuck you, FDR), I'd bet other .govs have too.

10% of your net pay doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but I don't invest in silver, gold, platinum, or palladium, so I'm basically just guessing here.

You investing in the four B's then (Bullets, Baked Beans, gold Bullion and Bullets)?

--Morgu


I like how you put bullets on there twice. :D

I don't really invest in anything, other than me. And for the past few years I haven't even been doing that very much, or very well. Yeah, I hit the gym, but I don't run or hike. I go shooting and reload, but I mostly either test reloads or just fuck off and blast rocks. I can't tell you the last time I practiced any fieldcraft. Sometime in 2011? Maybe the tail end of 2010?

I guess my lack of any fucks to give (Yay apathy!) is responsible. Why plan or train for a future that I can't even make decent guesses at other than "Shit will suck and be fucked up", especially when, no matter what happens, I essentially have no skin in the game? Once I'm no longer drawing breath, it doesn't matter what happens on this ball of rock. I have no children, nor will I ever be having any. I'm not in a hurry to expire, but I don't really have anything to stick around for, either.

At this point I'm just hoping that we manage to kick the can down the road long enough for me to retire and move to South America. My retirement plan will most likely kill me within a few months, but what a hell of a few months they'll be.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby EddieS » Mon May 02, 2016 9:45 pm

None. Assets should generate income. Directly or passively. Preferably directly. Passively by reducing expenditure you would otherwise have to pay. Bullion does none of those things. Its equivalent to long term currency trading. As mongol said, land is a better choice. I'm not a fan of shares. But they are still better than bullion if done right. They give dividends. Gold doesn't. It costs money to store if anything, and is unsecured.

The best way to make money from bullion is to trade it short term. Or be the exchanger, or prospector. Hoarding it is money on paper at best. The increase in value of bullion is not an asset you can borrow on, or use as leverage. If shtf, gold won't be worth squat. It only helps if you can sell it in time. But what will you sell it for? Worthless paper money, or cans of food and bullets?

People see bullion as a universal currency in a economic collapse situation. Personally, I think they will be disappointed. It would be a burden. Its heavy, hard to secure, not edible, nor does it sprout or kill.

I don't have to work to make money. Because my assets make it for me. Gold doesn't do that.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Morgu » Mon May 02, 2016 9:53 pm

Entreri wrote:
Morgu wrote:
Entreri wrote:How much of your pay are you comfortable living without?

How much are you willing to risk investing in metals that you might not be able to spend, and .gov might decide to seize next time there's an 'emergency'? US.fed.gov did exactly that during the Depression (fuck you, FDR), I'd bet other .govs have too.

10% of your net pay doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but I don't invest in silver, gold, platinum, or palladium, so I'm basically just guessing here.

You investing in the four B's then (Bullets, Baked Beans, gold Bullion and Bullets)?

--Morgu


I like how you put bullets on there twice. :D

Keeping priorities straight. Need the extra bullets to protect the baked beans. Once everyone knows you have baked beans, they all come running to ask for some.

Entreri wrote:I don't really invest in anything, other than me. And for the past few years I haven't even been doing that very much, or very well. Yeah, I hit the gym, but I don't run or hike. I go shooting and reload, but I mostly either test reloads or just fuck off and blast rocks. I can't tell you the last time I practiced any fieldcraft. Sometime in 2011? Maybe the tail end of 2010?

I guess my lack of any fucks to give (Yay apathy!) is responsible. Why plan or train for a future that I can't even make decent guesses at other than "Shit will suck and be fucked up", especially when, no matter what happens, I essentially have no skin in the game? Once I'm no longer drawing breath, it doesn't matter what happens on this ball of rock. I have no children, nor will I ever be having any. I'm not in a hurry to expire, but I don't really have anything to stick around for, either.

At this point I'm just hoping that we manage to kick the can down the road long enough for me to retire and move to South America. My retirement plan will most likely kill me within a few months, but what a hell of a few months they'll be.

But if you die:
1. you are leaving GIT here alone (think of the poor, poor planet)
2. you don't get to watch the fun (we're talking unrestrained, pure, unfiltered GIT) ;)

:lol:

--Morgu
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Notorious GIT » Tue May 03, 2016 4:59 pm

Not a single gram until you have firepower superior to anyone who decides they want it. After all, you're only collecting for the guy with the weapons and the best skills with them. Become that guy first.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby xtc » Tue May 03, 2016 5:47 pm

I just have a small amount in case SHTF. It's what I would use to bribe the last pilot to let me fly out with him.
If civilization totally fails, weapons and food are higher priority.

What I do:
About £10,000 in gold, as an insurance policy against disaster.
About £50,000 in cash to meet any problems. A year's worth of expenses in cash makes you very comfortable.
About £1,000,000 in property. This provides an income (or reduces an expense, the same thing).
About £2,000,000 in shares. These provide regular income and gradual growth.

As you get richer, you don't need lots in liquid investments. I eat the same food and wear the same clothes as anyone else. So a high proportion of my wealth is in rather risky, fairly illiquid, but income generating assets.
Shares really do go up and down a lot, and many people freak out at this. You should only invest what you can afford to lose, not because you will lose it, but to give you emotional calm to ride out the volatility. You never want to be in a position where you are forced to sell.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby ubermensch » Thu May 05, 2016 8:17 am

xtc wrote:I just have a small amount in case SHTF. It's what I would use to bribe the last pilot to let me fly out with him.
If civilization totally fails, weapons and food are higher priority.

What I do:
About £10,000 in gold, as an insurance policy against disaster.
About £50,000 in cash to meet any problems. A year's worth of expenses in cash makes you very comfortable.
About £1,000,000 in property. This provides an income (or reduces an expense, the same thing).
About £2,000,000 in shares. These provide regular income and gradual growth.

As you get richer, you don't need lots in liquid investments. I eat the same food and wear the same clothes as anyone else. So a high proportion of my wealth is in rather risky, fairly illiquid, but income generating assets.
Shares really do go up and down a lot, and many people freak out at this. You should only invest what you can afford to lose, not because you will lose it, but to give you emotional calm to ride out the volatility. You never want to be in a position where you are forced to sell.


XTC wins the thread.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby ATLien » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:51 am

Without an apocalypse mentality, as a percentage of your investment portfolio (ie: stocks, mutual funds, etc) most say stay within 15% of your total investments ... for 2016, pick up 10% of your portfolio if it dips down to $1000/oz, and another 10% if it goes to $800. Sell when when it tips $1400 and move that money back to your other investments.
You may be waiting a long time before it goes back up to $1800/oz... probably a good while for $1600. Once you sell, ignore gold til it dips back down to 800-1000...

case in point, had you bought gold @900/oz during the real estate / ETF crash in 2008 and sold at its peak in 2011, you would have doubled your money selling at 1800/oz

With current price 1200-1300, now is not the time to get into gold.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Mez » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:24 am

I bought about 5 pounds of little silver one ounce plaques years ago at a flea market where the guy was practically giving them away. Then immediately thought, "crap, I probably got duped". nope, I tested them. They were indeed silver.


I wouldnt bother with gold as a SHTF bartering good, mainly because people who are desperate will want something they can eat. or grow. It would probably be more useful as a currency after things stabilize, however.

but, I have used the silver several times as an antiseptic. All you have to do is soldier some leads to the silver and dip it into some water and run some electricity through it. It takes a while at first, but as the silver dissolves, you end up with a solution that is pretty good as an antibacterial, and the more silver dissolved into the water, the faster it dissolves.

reminds me of the old farmer trick of tossing a silver coin into a water trough to keep the water clear and algae free.
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby eric123 » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:57 pm

If things go south, I would imagine many of us will be dead in months to years...When everyone is starving, I'm not sure how valuable gold and silver will be...Food, firepower, toilet paper and things along those lines will be worth a lot...
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Re: Gold and silver - how much should I hoard?

Postby Phathack » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:33 pm

ubermensch wrote:As a percentage of my investments?


Over the years I remember hearing 5-10% of saving in precious metals.
I prefer all mine to be in easily recognized minted coins, not bars or rounds that some metals places sell as well.

I'm in the US and hold Krugerrands as well as US & Canadian minted coins.

However I hold a lot more copper jacked lead than I do precious metals...


:ugeek:
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