Mandela Effect

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Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:48 pm

This is a post I've been putting off for quite a while - why should become obvious as you read it.

First off, (for those who don't know) the "Mandela Effect" refers to a phenomenon where a large number of people remember things very differently than our history records it. Specifically, evidently many people remember Nelson Mandela dying in prison in the 1980's and were shocked when he in fact died "again" several years ago.

There are many possible reasons given for this phenomenon ranging from mental defect to collapsing universes altering and merging timelines. If you suffer the Mandela Effect, then life is getting weirder and weirder. If you don't, then all who do seem like maniacs.

I have been suffering the Mandela Effect for about eight to ten years. In my case, being a native Texan who was a child in the 1980's when everyone was obsessed with the TV show Dallas, I very distinctly and vividly recall the actor who portrayed JR Ewing, Larry Hagman, dying of liver cancer in the early to mid 2000's. The problem with this, is that according to our current history, he died of leukemia in 2012. Imagine my surprise upon learning that he died "again".

But it gets weirder.

I remember Darth Vader saying "Luke, I am your father." I saw this movie hundreds of times growing up. The problem is that now he says "No, I am your father."

I recall the nerdy girl Dolly who hooked up with Jaws in the movie Moonraker having braces. Not anymore.

I recall the show being called "Sex in the City". Not anymore.

I recall the line "Play it again, Sam" in the movie Casablanca. Not anymore.

I recall Hannibal Lector saying "Hello Clarise" in The Silence of the Lambs. Not anymore.

I recall the book of Isaiah saying that the lion and the lamb would live together in peace. Now it says the wolf and the lamb.

I recall Forrest Gump saying "Life is like a box of chocolates." Apparently now it's "Life WAS like a box of chocolates."

I recall the evil witch in the Disney movie Snow White saying "Mirror, mirror on the wall." Now it's "Magic Mirror on the wall."

There are hundreds more of these examples. There are many websites dedicated to this phenomenon, and I have different recollections on most of the examples cited, but there are some where my memories align with the present history perfectly.

Apparently, many people recall the children's books The Berenstain Bears once being the The Berenstein Bears. My memory says it's always been like it is now.

Some other people seem to recall a large island to the east of Australia. I do not.

I'm not sure what the fuck is going on, but this shit is increasing in my life to the point it's starting to annoy and frighten me. I beginning to lend some serious credence to the notion that the LHC at Cern is seriously undermining our reality by making quantum changes that are altering our timeline.

Do any of you guys suffer this phenomenon? If so, how? Any ideas on what's causing it?
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby EddieS » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:16 pm

I suffer it also. I recall almost all of things you have mentioned in same the way you recalled them. Until now. I was unaware that was not still the case. I looked up on my a few to double check. My memory is indeed mistaken in almost the exact same way yours is for most of the things you list.

I think this phenomenon is related to the phenomenon that has you putting something down on the table for example. Turning around to do something, then turning right back to find that object gone. No amount of searching will turn it up. Several hours or days later the object will appear in the exact place you are certain you left it. Sometimes its mere moments. Sometimes even years can pass before it turns up again. Usually it happens with everyday type objects.

It could also be a manifestation of not being able to remember something. No matter how much focus you attempt. When you have lost your focus, some time later. The memory appears.

It seems there are two starting points. Either my mind is the variable. Or reality is. Which instantly leads to the possibility of both also. But the hintergedanken that appears quietly and without cause tells me its to with the nature of time. Not so much that it doesn't exist, which it theoretically doesnt, but that its concept is having less affect on some people.

I don't want to go on too long about it, as the most important aspects of myself, and others are far beyond petty manipulations. If that's what they are.

As for cause/s. I have no fact or evidence based idea. Other than my vague theory that something is happening with time. No doubt, they/it are not able to exist in isolation.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:53 pm

Here's a pretty good video synopsis of this phenomenon for the curious. If you're one who suffers the Mandela Effect, you'll no doubt see some spooky shit in this.

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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby EddieS » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:28 pm

Just had a thought.

Have you seen the movie pontypool?

Its premise is that a zombie type virus has an unusual vector. The vector is language. Its rather interesting. Especially how it the virus is defeated.

Considering how many of the things that are subject to this Mandela effect, are language/spelling type blips. It seems related. Maybe.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby The Signal » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:36 pm

I most certainly cannot prove the following, but here is my hypothesis as to why the phenomenon is increasing: the digital information age amplifies it by the combination of our having rapid access to each other's posts/assertions and the drop off in actual reading and research that people do.

It's the same phenomenon, I suspect, that leads so damned many of my students at the university to think "must of seen..." and "should of gone..." are legitimate verb conjugations, which they are not. The error comes from hearing (but never actually reading) contractions of "must have..." and should have...", which come out as "must've" and "should've." It's also why so, so many students somehow think "a lot" is one word.

You see, "Play it again, Sam," "Luke, I am your father," and the rest of that have been cited just that way by so many sources now that only those who dig through the original to get the exact wording actually know the exact wording. Just another example: if I had a dollar for every reference I've heard to "the Book of Revelations," I'd have beer money for the foreseeable future. This phenomenon was always with us, but the digital age has amplified and accelerated it.

That's my hunch, anyway.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:45 pm

The Signal wrote:I most certainly cannot prove the following, but here is my hypothesis as to why the phenomenon is increasing: the digital information age amplifies it by the combination of our having rapid access to each other's posts/assertions and the drop off in actual reading and research that people do.

It's the same phenomenon, I suspect, that leads so damned many of my students at the university to think "must of seen..." and "should of gone..." are legitimate verb conjugations, which they are not. The error comes from hearing (but never actually reading) contractions of "must have..." and should have...", which come out as "must've" and "should've." It's also why so, so many students somehow think "a lot" is one word.

That's my hunch, anyway.


Possible to be sure.

However, I remember thinking I needed a CT scan when Hagman died the second time, and that was well before any knowledge of the Mandela Effect existed on my part.

Here's one for you -

How many people were in JFKs car in the Zapruder film?

Answer it to yourself and play the film in your mind. Then Google it and see if it matches your memory. My recollection is VERY different from this timeline's version.

Then repeat the first verse of Genesis from the King James' Bible to yourself. Then look it up.

If you're like me, you'll be rather disturbed quickly.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby Merlin » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:48 pm

I have one that I double checked that is kind of interesting.

In the movie Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (on VHS) the teacher is seen marking down two F's, one each for Bill and Ted. This was just before telling everyone would get to go home early because they were a couple of reports short.

After the spectacular presentation made by Bill and Ted there is a quick shot of the teacher turning the F's into A's. That shot is NOT on the DVD I had or any digital copy that I now own. I noticed it before tossing out my VCR and the tape so I checked. It was on the tape version. Sometimes things get edited out.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby The Signal » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:01 pm

womanhater wrote:However, I remember thinking I needed a CT scan when Hagman died the second time, and that was well before any knowledge of the Mandela Effect existed on my part.

I hear you. It can really freak you out sometimes when you face the gap between what you seem to remember and what actually happened. The one that drives me nuts some nights is when I catch myself in false memory insertions. Given my epmhasis on intellectual honesty and truth above comfort (and indeed above pretty much anything else), that stuff just drives me up a wall.

womanhater wrote:Here's one for you -

How many people were in JFKs car in the Zapruder film?

No clue; never saw it.

womanhater wrote:Then repeat the first verse of Genesis from the King James' Bible to yourself. Then look it up.

If you're like me, you'll be rather disturbed quickly.

That one's too easy for me, as I'm Christian.

Try this one from the vintage advertising world: "Oh, I wish I were an Oscar Mayer weiner." Nope. In fact it's "Oh, I'd love to be an Oscar Mayer weiner."

Once you start looking for it, this stuff is absolutely everywhere.

EDIT: Mmf! Hate them typos!
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:32 pm

The Signal wrote:
womanhater wrote:However, I remember thinking I needed a CT scan when Hagman died the second time, and that was well before any knowledge of the Mandela Effect existed on my part.

I hear you. It can really freak you out sometimes when you face the gap between what you seem to remember and what actually happened. The one that drives me nuts some nights is when I catch myself in fale memory insertions. Given my epmhasis on intellectual honesty and truth above comfort (and indeed above pretty much anything else), that stuff just drives me up a wall.

womanhater wrote:Here's one for you -

How many people were in JFKs car in the Zapruder film?

No clue; never saw it.

womanhater wrote:Then repeat the first verse of Genesis from the King James' Bible to yourself. Then look it up.

If you're like me, you'll be rather disturbed quickly.

That one's too easy for me, as I'm Christian.


Yeah, as am I. I very distinctly recall God creating the HEAVENS and the Earth. Now Heaven is singular.

I too am intellectually honest (as much as any one can be at least), and at some point, one has to consider that time shifts are occurring. They're unlikely but not impossible.
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"Sexual attraction towards women is a disease, and we have to thank modern feminism for providing us with its cure." - MPAV8R

"Women don't owe men anything. Not a smile. Not sex, Not even empathy or compassion. Men don't owe women anything either. Not interest. Not resources. And definitely not commitment or children." - Demosthenes

"Women's definition of oppression is being held accountable for their actions." - Mr.Fenrir

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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby The Signal » Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:56 pm

womanhater wrote:
The Signal wrote:That one's too easy for me, as I'm Christian.


Yeah, as am I. I very distinctly recall God creating the HEAVENS and the Earth. Now Heaven is singular.

Ahh--I see. I've always used NRSV and NKJV, so that's not a quirk I've had to confront. As Merlin noted, sometimes things get edited from one edition or format to the next, so it might well be that previous KJV versions did have the plural. After all, the whole Old Testament is a translation from Hebrew, so who knows how many typos might be in any given edition?

womanhater wrote:I too am intellectually honest (as much as any one can be at least)

It gets tricky, doesn't it? The more you emphasize its worth, the more often you catch yourself unconsciously violating it. Original sin, baby.

womanhater wrote:and at some point, one has to consider that time shifts are occurring. They're unlikely but not impossible.

Oops--you lost me. Time whats, now? Are we going sci fi here?

P.S.: I just went back and checked: the RSV says "heavens," so I suspect your memory on that one might actually be correct.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby Sharkbait » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:11 pm

If alternate timelines/parallel universes do exist, it could be that they occasionally merge, altering minor details. Though it's far more likely that this phenomenon is a result of false memories.

I could easily see one forming for "Luke, I am your father", because Vader says all of those words during that scene, but not in that order. So without seeing the movie to refresh the memory for a long time, the the memory could be corrupted to form a similar phrase that he didn't actually say.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby ranome » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:26 pm

Think about what implications this has for the criminal justice system. When somebody picks someone from a line-up as an "eyewitness," how reliable is that really? In my view, not very. The gap between what you "remember" and what actually happened is dangerous for those accused of a crime.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby EddieS » Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:25 am

ranome wrote:Think about what implications this has for the criminal justice system. When somebody picks someone from a line-up as an "eyewitness," how reliable is that really? In my view, not very. The gap between what you "remember" and what actually happened is dangerous for those accused of a crime.



Dna evidence!

Damn, I'm sure the gene was GTcgTGg, and not GtcgTgC.

What impact might it have on software. Considering its programmed by people.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:24 am

The Signal wrote:
womanhater wrote:
The Signal wrote:That one's too easy for me, as I'm Christian.


Yeah, as am I. I very distinctly recall God creating the HEAVENS and the Earth. Now Heaven is singular.

Ahh--I see. I've always used NRSV and NKJV, so that's not a quirk I've had to confront. As Merlin noted, sometimes things get edited from one edition or format to the next, so it might well be that previous KJV versions did have the plural. After all, the whole Old Testament is a translation from Hebrew, so who knows how many typos might be in any given edition?

womanhater wrote:I too am intellectually honest (as much as any one can be at least)

It gets tricky, doesn't it? The more you emphasize its worth, the more often you catch yourself unconsciously violating it. Original sin, baby.

womanhater wrote:and at some point, one has to consider that time shifts are occurring. They're unlikely but not impossible.

Oops--you lost me. Time whats, now? Are we going sci fi here?

P.S.: I just went back and checked: the RSV says "heavens," so I suspect your memory on that one might actually be correct.


Obviously the translations of the bible are imperfect, and the KJV is among the worst for egregious translations - however, I grew up reading the KJV bible my grandfather gave me. And THAT SPECIFIC BOOK has changed. It's as if the book is from an alternate timeline. THE SPECIFIC BOOK ON MY SHELF HAS CHANGED. As well as all other online versions, etc., but the specific book I've had since I was five years old has changed.

And as to the sci-fi aspect of all of this - well, this is Area 51 for starters :)

But, anything that is not impossible, no matter how unlikely, is still possible. Is it more likely that there is some sort of mass delusion creating this perception among many people? Sure. But it is also POSSIBLE that slight quantum changes are shifting the timeline which is certainly possible according to almost all models of the universe/multiverse.

Given that most of the changes I've noticed have occurred since the LHC went online, it does open the possibility that there is a relationship.

Here's one for you - think about C3PO from Star Wars. Imagine what he looks like. Think of every toy you've ever seen of him, etc. Then Google his image. Yep.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby EddieS » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:32 am

But, anything that is not impossible, no matter how unlikely, is still possible


Lets take this to its logical conclusion. Based on a premise; Is the universe infinite? If yes, then everything that could possibly happen, will happen. Every potentiality is theoretically assured on a quantum level.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby MisterPho » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:43 am

The human brain is a pattern-matching machine.

This is evolutionary. The best way to avoid danger/injury/death is to know that it's coming. How do you know what's going to happen in the future? You predict it based on rules of logic and patterns. It's about being proactive.

Memory kind of works the same. You can remember Darth Vader saying "Luke, I am your father" not because timelines have been changed but because people changed it. I don't mean they went back and changed every copy of Empire Strikes Back, I mean the people at the time, when they *repeated* it out loud as a catch phrase, changed it. People weren't going around saying "No, I am your father" they were going around saying "Luke, I am your father" to give it more sensical context as a catch phrase.

I was a Star Wars nerd growing up. I've probably watched that scene almost as many times as I've heard people use the catch phrase. I used to (and probably still can) speak along, word for word, with the dialog in the movies as they're playing. For me, there's the actual line, and on the other hand there's people doing the impersonation -- a pop-culture reference made for fun.

So getting back to memory, when you hear someone do the impersonation, it brings it to your mind (i.e. your mind puts together the scene in your head) and you imagine Darth Vader saying the line, in his voice. With the popularity of the catch phrase at the time, this was repeated over and over, usually with the impersonation of the deep voice -- this helps imagine the scene.

Played out in your head enough times, this is how you start to remember it.

These things get changed for convenience. "Life WAS like a box of chocolates" doesn't cut it as a 3-second catch phrase.
"If you build it HE will come" is too out of context for a movie about a BUNCH of baseball players that appear from the past. Yes, it starts with just one, but no we're getting into too complex a context.

I remember the Larry Hagman liver cancer thing. People were talking about it when the news came out, and it was pretty much accepted at the time that he was dying and done for. I remember tabloid cover pictures showing him really sick. There was no reversal of this, no big hullabaloo in the media around "Hey everyone, J.R.'s OKAY!"

It's kind of like how so many people thought "irregardless" was a valid word. Its usage spread so far that NOW the Oxford dictionary has accepted it.

When it comes to memory, the human brain will throw away lots of unimportant minutiae. Berenstain Bears -- I've heard this mispronounced as Berenstein so many times vs. actually reading the words on a book that I fell into this one, too. The shortcut in the mind for last names reinforces this, as there are plenty of last names that end in -STEIN whereas -STAIN is kind of an anomaly.

The tricks the brain uses to save energy can sometimes cause tricks to be played on the brain.
If a lie is told often enough, it starts to be believed.

So, no, not going crazy and they're not ripping the shit out of reality over at CERN. Just your brain trying to be efficient.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby MisterPho » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:47 am

womanhater wrote:Here's one for you - think about C3PO from Star Wars. Imagine what he looks like. Think of every toy you've ever seen of him, etc. Then Google his image. Yep.


Are you talking about the exposed wires/mechanics above his waist?
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:55 am

MisterPho wrote:
womanhater wrote:Here's one for you - think about C3PO from Star Wars. Imagine what he looks like. Think of every toy you've ever seen of him, etc. Then Google his image. Yep.


Are you talking about the exposed wires/mechanics above his waist?


His silver leg. No C3PO I ever had was anything but solid gold.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby MisterPho » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:15 am

womanhater wrote:
MisterPho wrote:
womanhater wrote:Here's one for you - think about C3PO from Star Wars. Imagine what he looks like. Think of every toy you've ever seen of him, etc. Then Google his image. Yep.


Are you talking about the exposed wires/mechanics above his waist?


His silver leg. No C3PO I ever had was anything but solid gold.


The original figure didn't have the silver leg, and I don't think the original 18-inch figure did, either.

The latest toys seem to emphasize it. It's hard to notice in the movies, and since it doesn't really stand out (until you're looking for it), the mind fills in the blanks.

For the longest time I thought C3P0 had a belt-like piece that was missing a lot of the time in the movies that covered up the exposed parts on his midriff. Then I realized that came from a promo "guest appearance" at a mall as a kid, where they had a guy in a C3P0 costume giving "autographs." Guess the wires part was a bit too complex for a costume at the time (it was the late 70s) so there was a "belt" that covered that up.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:53 am

But see, in EVERY memory I have of C3PO, he NEVER EVER EVER had a silver leg. Not ever. If your memory says otherwise then all of us who suffer from this effect must seem unhinged.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby mountainman » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:45 am

Perhaps we should take the red pill/blue pill stuff more seriously. They really are changing the Matrix! :D

Memories of C-3PO's leg are going to be confused. It's half gold and half silver. Attached is a screenshot from the original 1977 movie (as modified per quantum entanglement directive E149XQ):
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby The Signal » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:20 pm

womanhater wrote:Obviously the translations of the bible are imperfect, and the KJV is among the worst for egregious translations - however, I grew up reading the KJV bible my grandfather gave me. And THAT SPECIFIC BOOK has changed. It's as if the book is from an alternate timeline. THE SPECIFIC BOOK ON MY SHELF HAS CHANGED. As well as all other online versions, etc., but the specific book I've had since I was five years old has changed.

And as to the sci-fi aspect of all of this - well, this is Area 51 for starters :)

Oookayyyy...now I get where you're going. Hey, you don't need any funky spacetime wedgies to run this kind of stuff. If you want a real mindtwist, there's this book by an absolutely fantastic philosopher/logician named David Lewis. Its title is On the Plurality of Worlds, and it truly is a classic. Short version: anything that can happen does happen somewhere under a sufficiently careful definition of "somewhere."

womanhater wrote:But, anything that is not impossible, no matter how unlikely, is still possible. Is it more likely that there is some sort of mass delusion creating this perception among many people? Sure. But it is also POSSIBLE that slight quantum changes are shifting the timeline which is certainly possible according to almost all models of the universe/multiverse.

Quantum shmantum. Plurality of worlds, baby; it'll give you everything you need.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:36 pm

The Signal wrote:
womanhater wrote:Obviously the translations of the bible are imperfect, and the KJV is among the worst for egregious translations - however, I grew up reading the KJV bible my grandfather gave me. And THAT SPECIFIC BOOK has changed. It's as if the book is from an alternate timeline. THE SPECIFIC BOOK ON MY SHELF HAS CHANGED. As well as all other online versions, etc., but the specific book I've had since I was five years old has changed.

And as to the sci-fi aspect of all of this - well, this is Area 51 for starters :)

Oookayyyy...now I get where you're going. Hey, you don't need any funk spacetime wedgies to run this kind of stuff. If you want a real mindtwist, there's this book by an absolutely fantastic philosopher/logician named David Lewis. Its title is On the Plurality of Worlds, and it truly is a classic. Short version: anything that can happen does happen somewhere under a sufficiently careful definition of "somewhere."

womanhater wrote:But, anything that is not impossible, no matter how unlikely, is still possible. Is it more likely that there is some sort of mass delusion creating this perception among many people? Sure. But it is also POSSIBLE that slight quantum changes are shifting the timeline which is certainly possible according to almost all models of the universe/multiverse.

Quantum shmantum. Plurality of worlds, baby; it'll give you everything you need.


Plurality of worlds is an effect of quantum mechanics. In fact, the Everett-Wheeler model of quantum mechanics is also known as the many worlds theory.

The essence of it is this - every quantum decision (and every possible outcome of every possible decision) exists all the time. When you observe a decision, then you follow the path created by your observation since quantum mechanics teaches there is no such thing as an uninvolved observer. Essentially there are infinite realities where every possible outcome has/is happening or will happen. In one universe I'm dead and in another I'm the supreme galactic overlord and in another I never existed.

I'm suggesting that my previous observations and memories do not reflect what is now occurring and I suspect it's something to do with hijinks being done at/by CERN.

And should anyone wonder how I can believe such things while also being an ardent traditional sedevacantist Catholic - Jesus spoke at length about eternity. Do you think He meant forever, or is it possible he was referring to fifth (or higher) dimensional space where time is not a factor as it is here?

As to the many worlds, well "There are many rooms in my father's house..."
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"Sexual attraction towards women is a disease, and we have to thank modern feminism for providing us with its cure." - MPAV8R

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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby The Signal » Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:25 pm

womanhater wrote:Plurality of worlds is an effect of quantum mechanics. In fact, the Everett-Wheeler model of quantum mechanics is also known as the many worlds theory.

I know that, but under Lewis' version of it, you don't need any physics at all for it; it's a result just of his work in pure logic and the philosophical consequences thereof.

After all, the "many worlds" interpretation of quantum mechanics is just one among many such interpretations, and it is far from the majority position. My own belief on that is that the subatomic domain is too weird and freaky for ANY interpretations to work, so the only honest thing we can say about it is: "Well, we can predict these results reliably, but we have not the faintest idea what's actually going on down there." Under Lewis' pluralism from modal logic, though, we definitely, unequivocally can say that it possesses explanatory power and elegance right at those points where competing theories struggle to say anything useful. That is a great advantage.

womanhater wrote:As to the many worlds, well "There are many rooms in my father's house..."

Exactly. It's a wild position, I fully grant, but has not experience taught us that the actual truth of things is often wildly counterintuitive? And as you note, the conjecture does have scriptural support.
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Re: Mandela Effect

Postby womanhater » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:15 pm

Here's another one-

Say the Lord's Prayer. Then go read it in the KJV.

If you're like me, it has changed.
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"Sexual attraction towards women is a disease, and we have to thank modern feminism for providing us with its cure." - MPAV8R

"Women don't owe men anything. Not a smile. Not sex, Not even empathy or compassion. Men don't owe women anything either. Not interest. Not resources. And definitely not commitment or children." - Demosthenes

"Women's definition of oppression is being held accountable for their actions." - Mr.Fenrir

"This world needs to burn in holy nuclear fire." - hansmoleman
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